|
Post by brycesdad on Nov 10, 2007 12:15:37 GMT -5
Last night my family took me out to celebrate my B-day, I laughed the best I could and smiled the best I could smile. However, today I am feeling guilty and my family doesn't understand that. I am not sure I understand. I know that I am supposed to live even though my son is gone, I know that I should not feel guilty, but then why do I. I have pretty much cried all morning, I miss him so.
He was my only child, I will never be called dad again. I will never be a grandfather. Why, why it just doesn't make sense.
It has now become even difficult to think of him, the only way I survive is to put it out of my head. I just don't think of it. I avoid everything to do with it. I don't talk about it. I get glimpses of it every once in a while, a thought will come to mind and I immediately tense and my chest will tighten. I hate this, I want to think of the good times, but those hurt as well. It is just not fair.
I received the toxicology reports Thursday, neither of them has any drugs or alcohol in their systems. But I can't think about that. I can't think about that at all. It is just to painful to digest.
God I hate her I hate her so much, but I have to forgive her right. If I follow the religion that I was taught, the only way to ever see my son again is to get to heaven. So I have to forgive her. But how do you do that, how do you forgive someone for killing your child. How do I forgive her for killing our child. I can never do that, not ever. But I know I have to.
I am tired of crying, I am tired of hurting I just want it to stop, but it wont. I use to think that I was a strong person, that I would handle any death in my family in stride. I would be the one that would hold up and assure things got done. I feel absolutely useless, I have absolutely folded.
Thank you for letting ramble, people just don't understand how I feel and why I feel the way I do. I can't talk to them, the don't have a base of reference to understand from. Thanks again David.
|
|
|
Post by pumpkin12903 on Nov 10, 2007 12:44:00 GMT -5
Dear brycesdad, please don't be hard on yourself. You're going through the hardest times after a murder and that's the 1st few months and years after. I have a strong feeling all of us have felt what's called "survivors' guilt", parts of which can be: we struggle with all the questions about what's the ultimate WHY of our tragedy? What's the ultimate WHY of what happened? Did we do enough to prevent it, etc. ESPECIALLY in inter-family cases. I understand "putting on a front". I did this when I started a new job less than 2 months after the murders. SOMETHING was helping me to do what I had to do. I think it was God. The fact that you're SANE shows that you're making it. In the 1st few months/years after our tragedies just to do what you have to do and stay sane is an accomplishment. The people that will understand what you're going through the most are those who HAVE BEEN THROUGH IT as you have. Unfortunately, among those it hasn't happened to, there's a big % of cowards who don't WANT to understand! They want to HIDE from life, from the fact that many people do evil acts of murder and other things. I have news for them: hiding isn't healthy and when something does happen to them, they won't be prepared as much as people who FACED things in the world BEFORE THEIR tragedies. The forgiveness issue is a complicated 1. It took me MANY years to get to that point. I couldn't do it on my own so I prayed for help to do it. It sounds like your beliefs might be like mine. I believe God understood why it took a lot of years for me to get to that point. Please don't be hard on yourself either with the forgiveness. Technically, that's between you and God. And is also up to EACH MVS. While I believe that those who forgive and those who don't should state WHY, NO MVS should get grief for his/her choice. I've gotten garbage over choosing to forgive. Yes, it hurts, but when it comes down to it, those people aren't God, and THAT'S who I'm accountable to as far as my religious beliefs go. As far as feeling hate for the perpetrator, that's not unreasonable at all. I felt hate MANY times for my Mother. I wished she'd die many times. I never wanted her to get the death penalty, though. I'll ALWAYS hate what she did! I also loved her and still do. I learned it's possible to hate/love the same person at different times. Your feelings of hate are normal. You ARE a strong person in that you're sane! And your strength is proven, too, by your coming here. To speak out when there's yahoos in our society who AUTOMATICALLY think in stereotypes about the MVS in inter-family murder cases is to be commended! Your speaking out will help others as all of us on here help each other. There's also yahoos who automatically assume the worst about ANY perpetrator's family/friends, ex-friends, anyone that was associated with them. You may want to see if there's a Parents of Murdered Children meeting by you. They helped me a lot in the 1st years after the murders. There's a link to them on here. If you ever need to talk/vent, we're here. I'm sorry for all you're going through. Take care.
|
|
|
Post by ani on Nov 10, 2007 13:03:36 GMT -5
You don't HAVE to do anything. You do what you can, when you can do it. God hates murder as much as we do and understands that you are a human being. This is sooo soon, way too soon to be preasuring yourself to do anything but function. Just concentrate on getting from one moment to the next without worrying about the big picture.
I am trying to put myself in your position and I know I do not fully understand, however if someone killed my boy I would NEVER forgive them, NEVER. I don't think God would blame me either. I hope you do not think I am telling you how to grieve, and I do understand that you cannot help what your brain comes up with, I just think you are being really too hard on yourself. I just wish there was more I could say or do to help. I am so sorry.
((((((((((((brycesdad)))))))))))
|
|
|
Post by ani on Nov 10, 2007 13:15:46 GMT -5
I just want to add that I did some of the same things to myself after my nephew was killed, for example:
I was pregnant in the last year of his life and I reasoned that because I was wishing the days away so I could see my baby, that I was also somehow wishing his life away at the same time. I was so angry that I didn't just enjoy those last months with him on this Earth because I was so focused on myself and the baby I was going to have. Some one even told me that God works that way, He gives us one and takes one away... I know better now.
Also, instead of insisting that our nephew come and see us after the baby was born we basically gave him permission to go on the trip that led to his death. I thought, "if only we had told him that we wanted him with us, he would still be here".
The what-ifs never seem to stop, but they are wrong. The truth is that there is nothing anyone could have done to change what happened. Again, I am so very very sorry for your loss.
|
|
|
Post by Janet-Beth's Mom on Nov 10, 2007 16:11:40 GMT -5
Why do you have to forgive her? She hasn't even asked it. She didn't even have the courage to face what she had done after she did it. Why do you have to? Instructions in the bible regarding when we should forgive are quite explicit that we should forgive those who ask us to. It is somewhere in Luke, I am sorry I don't remember the chapter and verse, but will try to find it. And I for one believe that God is very angry with the murderers too. I think if it takes more to be forgiven for that than it does for social foibles, then that makes sense. We are made in His image. The murderers have ended one who was made in His image. This is not a simple lie or stealing something that can be replaced. And if someone can not see that kind of forgiveness would take so much more, they are asking too much of me. Perhaps I will feel differently someday, but I know I won't lie to God either - forgiving is not part of the ten commandments - lying is. I decided it is better for me to simply be honest with God and answer that I don't know if that is something I could ever do, or even want to do. That is what I have decided for me anyway, and I am comfortable with that. I felt that others did not understand me also. I printed the information here www.nmsoh.org/complications_of_breavement.htmand gave it to some people in my family. I believe that at least seeing it in print like that let them know it was not just me. That it was because of the murders, and their help would be appreciated. What people expected of me seemed to ease up a bit after I gave them that. And it helped me to understand some of the things that were happening to me too. You may or may not want to, of course that is up to you, but it did help me. Some days one foot in front of the other is the best we can do, if your mind is racing and taking over as mine was to me. It helped me a bit when others began to understand that too. Ramble away all you want. perhaps together we will happen on something that can help at least a little bit. And each little bit, no matter how tiny, is one more step.
|
|
|
Post by beemo on Nov 10, 2007 22:16:29 GMT -5
Anytime I said anything negative about my nephew (who killed my dad), my mom would get instantly cold towards me. I finally said, please don't take it personally. I don't begrudge you your feelings, please don't begrudge me mine. Then she said something about forgiveness. I don't remember what I replied to that, but I'm just not at that place yet. It's a year later and I'm just not there. Maybe someday I will be, but I'm not putting any deadlines on myself.
I'm still just starting to really digest what happened. At the time, I kept very busy, taking care of ALL the arrangements. After that, anytime it came into my mind, I pushed it away. It was too much to think about. I don't think that's too unhealthy, because if you dwell on it, that can be bad too. I just try to deal with it in little packets. That's all I can do.
Don't be too hard on yourself. I would be absolutely crushed if I lost one of my children. It's going to take time. No one really understood what I was going through, either, and then I found this place. Thank God. So come here and ramble all you want. It really helps, and the people here know just how you feel.
|
|
|
Post by pumpkin12903 on Nov 11, 2007 8:45:49 GMT -5
I was pressured by a friend not long after the murders to forgive Mom. It was TOO soon! I couldn't do it yet. I was able to stay calm, though, while listening to her. It took a lot of years for me to get to the point of forgiving. However, forgiveness doesn't mean at ALL we OR God condone the murder and/or murders! I'm so sick of people believing that myth about forgiveness! Last year I was told that because I still have anger towards Mom I really didn't forgive her! WHAT THE ***####? Can you imagine? If ANYONE had their Mother murder their Dad and Grandma on the same day, wouldn't that person be angry EVERY TIME THE MURDERS ARE EVEN THOUGHT ABOUT? It's NORMAL to feel angry over being wronged this much! Anger isn't held against us by God. That's the NORMAL emotional reaction! But, other things are, according to my beliefs. Please note, I'm not trying to tell people on here what to do. I'm just stating what happened to me with my own beliefs, etc. It's normal to feel anger over our loved 1 and/or loved 1's being murdered for the rest of our lives! I found this remark infuriating and still do. FYI, the 1 who said it has never lost a loved 1 to murder! Don't you love these "experts"?
|
|
|
Post by pumpkin12903 on Nov 11, 2007 8:48:53 GMT -5
Dear ani, speaking of what ifs I'll always believe it was POSSIBLE the murders in my family COULD HAVE been prevented. I can't say 100% for SURE they could have been. But I believe it was possible. Especially if Mom had gotten the mental/spiritual help and STUCK with it. 1 of the worst tragedies in life is when people don't get help! It destroys relationships and more. But, I also know that you CAN drive yourself crazy with the "what ifs". I learned you have to let them go to a degree since we can't change the past.
|
|
|
Post by adamswife on Nov 11, 2007 16:46:06 GMT -5
You don't have to forgive your son's killer to get to heaven. I'll never believe that such a thing is a mandatory requirement to get into heaven. God knows how much pain you're in, and I'm sure He understands that foregiveness for something as awful as murder is a very personal decision.
In time, you will be able to be in a better position to decide if part of moving forward is forgiveness, or not.
|
|
|
Post by ani on Nov 11, 2007 21:08:57 GMT -5
Dear ani, speaking of what ifs I'll always believe it was POSSIBLE the murders in my family COULD HAVE been prevented. I can't say 100% for SURE they could have been. But I believe it was possible. Especially if Mom had gotten the mental/spiritual help and STUCK with it. 1 of the worst tragedies in life is when people don't get help! It destroys relationships and more. But, I also know that you CAN drive yourself crazy with the "what ifs". I learned you have to let them go to a degree since we can't change the past. Those are still what-if's. The only person who could have changed what happened was your mother. It is just a shame that she CHOOSE not to. ETA: Sorry brycesdad, this does not really belong in your thread.
|
|
|
Post by pumpkin12903 on Nov 12, 2007 6:11:57 GMT -5
Dear ani, speaking of what ifs I'll always believe it was POSSIBLE the murders in my family COULD HAVE been prevented. I can't say 100% for SURE they could have been. But I believe it was possible. Especially if Mom had gotten the mental/spiritual help and STUCK with it. 1 of the worst tragedies in life is when people don't get help! It destroys relationships and more. But, I also know that you CAN drive yourself crazy with the "what ifs". I learned you have to let them go to a degree since we can't change the past. Those are still what-if's. The only person who could have changed what happened was your mother. It is just a shame that she CHOOSE not to. ETA: Sorry brycesdad, this does not really belong in your thread. Dear Ani, we can agree to disagree about this aspect of my familys' case. I'm sorry if I caused any upset/distraction, etc. in this thread by talking about this aspect in detail.
|
|
|
Post by ani on Nov 12, 2007 20:57:10 GMT -5
Those are still what-if's. The only person who could have changed what happened was your mother. It is just a shame that she CHOOSE not to. ETA: Sorry brycesdad, this does not really belong in your thread. Dear Ani, we can agree to disagree about this aspect of my familys' case. I'm sorry if I caused any upset/distraction, etc. in this thread by talking about this aspect in detail. You know what Pumpkin? You are right. I do not know the ins and outs of your family's case and it is wrong of me to try and claim that I do. I am sorry. I just firmly believe that it is the responsiblity of the would-be murderer to NOT kill. I know for a fact that I can not control anyone else's actions, and I also know that people can only be helped if they want to be helped. It seems like many MVS struggle with blaming themselves and that is always so hard on my heart to see.
|
|
|
Post by brycesdad on Nov 13, 2007 8:23:25 GMT -5
Ani and Pumpkin No offense taken, this is an open forum and I learn from each post.
Reply: I think what I struggle from most these days are the "what ifs", I was his dad, and I should have been there to protect him. When there were problems in the past, I would have gone to my ex-wifes house and solved the problem, this time I let the law handle it. I should or maybe could have prevented this. My family firmly believes that she was waiting for me, that she would have tried to kill me as well. Maybe she would have been successful, maybe not. But because I did nothing, we will never know.
I have sought the counsel of a minister outside of my regular religion, my biggest fear is that I will die, before I am able to forgive her for killing my son. IF there is a heaven, and Bryce is there, I want to be there as well.
As you can tell today is a good day, I am well rested and ready to face the day.
Thank you all again for your insights, it does help. I know this is a sight of give and take, and I am taking right now, my only hope is that one day I will be able to help as you all are doing for me.
|
|
|
Post by taterfay on Nov 13, 2007 18:27:51 GMT -5
Hi david:
I think it is too soon to be trying to decide whether or not you can forgive Bryce's mom..you need to just be taking care of yourself. I'm glad you had an ok day....My wish is that you eventually have more good days than bad...but that takes awhile and every single person is different when it comes to grieving.
I've had a lot of good times since my sister was murdered and at first I would feel so incredibly guilty for it but I've come to realize that I have to live my life and feel all the joy and sorrow. Holidays still are hard..I have to fake my way through them sometimes but I think it's ok. You can only do what you can do..one day at a time.
My family (including myself) and my sister's friends KNEW she was being abused by her boyfriend and ultimately there was nothing we could do. We couldn't protect her either...I won't hold myself responsible...only the murderers are responsible. It is SO hard not to feel guilty sometimes, though...trust me, I understand.
You've written that you try not to deal with this/or think about it as much as possible and that is OK. You can deal with it in tiny little chunks...Block it out when you can/need to and let yourself feel it when you feel strong enough to do that....crying is good for you though I know it seems like it will never ever ever end. For me..things HAVE gotten better...I realize I am MUCH stronger than I ever realized. This doesn't mean I am "ok" or "over it"...that will never entirely be the case..I just want to give you some hope...It has taken 2 years for me to get to this point and I have really bad days still. Please be patient with yourself and post and vent as much as you want here..don't worry about "rambling" or "taking"....when you are up to it you will be in the position to lend support to others...just by reading other people's posts you are doing good:) I am just so glad you are here! Big Hugs! Stacey
|
|
|
Post by pumpkin12903 on Nov 14, 2007 8:30:39 GMT -5
Dear Ani, we can agree to disagree about this aspect of my familys' case. I'm sorry if I caused any upset/distraction, etc. in this thread by talking about this aspect in detail. You know what Pumpkin? You are right. I do not know the ins and outs of your family's case and it is wrong of me to try and claim that I do. I am sorry. I just firmly believe that it is the responsiblity of the would-be murderer to NOT kill. I know for a fact that I can not control anyone else's actions, and I also know that people can only be helped if they want to be helped. It seems like many MVS struggle with blaming themselves and that is always so hard on my heart to see. Dear ani, apology accepted. I'm 100% with you on the murderer has a choice! I know it's true, too, about people have to want to be helped. I know 1 of the biggest tragedies in life is when they don't get help.
|
|
|
Post by Janet-Beth's Mom on Nov 14, 2007 10:00:06 GMT -5
We all had types of survivor guilt too, the reasons were as varied as the people. I heard it from her friends (if I had done something with her that night, she would not have been there), her siblings and even felt it ourselves (what could I have done differently so she would have been in a different place that day - my poor husband even felt guilty for fixing her radiator the day before because if her car wasn't running she couldn't have been there - poor man as if it was not a caring favor he had done for her in reality).
As her mother I tortured myself with everything I might have done differently. But it does boil down to it was the murderer's choice and theirs alone. It took time for me to feel that way, it was easier to know it logically.
For a very, very long time I said out loud to myself in the mirror every morning (my therapist had recommended this), "No one knew what choices they were really making but the murderer." over and over several times each morning.
Because it's true. But knowing it and feeling it were 2 different things, and the feeling took a long time coming, and still wavers at times but not nearly so badly as it used to be.
|
|
|
Post by purples on Mar 22, 2008 16:57:47 GMT -5
There's guilt thrown from all direction. All we can do is live with the results. It's never the results we want, because our loved one never comes back, or we wake up out of the horrible dream. Times doesn't heal, we just learn to live with it!
|
|
|
Post by mysondwi on Oct 26, 2008 23:53:49 GMT -5
i dont know how to tell you wscept that its ok to hurt for your sone as i do for mine. i have another son and daughter but Davis was my first born and i had him for 2 years before we had my other son. he was the oldes and i loved him so we did almost everything together and the hurt is just as you described. it has been almost a year and i can still see him. he died in my arms at the hospital and it is the most awfull thing a man can go through that i know of. it hurts even more seeing how calouse the cops have been to me and the rest of my family. it is hard to be strong when someone so dear is taken from you and you were helpless to do anything. i am still crying everyday and i will probably cry everyday for a long time. it just hurts so bad. i do understand . god bless you .
|
|