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Post by meme on Mar 26, 2006 17:46:58 GMT -5
To forgive is to wipe the slate clean. No one can wipe the slate clean with bloody hands. __________________________________ Revelation 21:8 mentions the second death, which is death of the soul. If anyone had one molecule of REALLY believing in God, they would not be CAPABLE of murder IN THE FIRST PLACE. _______________________________________________________________ The murderers who claim to get "saved" in prison are using the bible as a desperate bid to "save" their own ass. They showed no belief, no mercy, no consideration to their victims. No regret for the agony and grief that forever will be a part of the victim's family and friends lives. A few claim to be sorry only AFTER they have murdered, it's always AFTER they committed murder. They know it is wrong but do it anyway. They have achieved their evil goal, let the chips fall where they may. The murderers know some bleeding heart out there will protest their punishment. I've never seen a vigil for the VICTIM be televised to increase punishment against the murderer. Ohhhhhhh noooooo, it would be too harrrrrd on the widdle murderer. ______________________________________ The murderer is counting on their rights to be protected, they know how to use the system. If we denied these disgusting murders all the "rights" that they denied their victims, see what would happen. __________________________________________________ Murderers are like spoiled, selfish pigs, doing whatever satisfy their own greedy impulses for the moment, no thought of how others will be effected. ______________________________________ If we accept murder as a regular part of our lifestyle here on earth, then we are ignorant of the fact that murder is NOT a lifestyle, it is a DEATHSTYLE.
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Post by pumpkin12903 on Mar 30, 2006 11:11:48 GMT -5
Dear Meme, I feel all I can say at this point is that we can agree to disagree. I like how even though we don't agree on much you haven't attacked me personally. Thank you for that. I wish the best for you and that in your case justice will be done. Take care.
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Post by zsazsa on Mar 30, 2006 11:33:41 GMT -5
Just thought I would add my 2 cents worth.
To forgive does not mean that you like the person or what they have done. I think part of forgiving is coming to the realization that nothing can undo what happened and that you are not going to carry around hatred for the rest of your life. You find an inner peace.
Just my thought.
Zsazsa
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Post by pumpkin12903 on Mar 30, 2006 12:51:33 GMT -5
Thank you, Zsazsa! None of us in my family condone what my Mother did. We never paid her bond. There was never any question about that. We didn't do anything to get her time in the mental hospital shortened or make her punishment less. I agree with you on that life isn't to be spent in hatred. I saw enough sickness with what my Mother did, and don't want to live that way ever. Thanks for your comment. Take care.
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Post by meme on Mar 30, 2006 18:08:10 GMT -5
Pumpkn, your mother had a mental disease, right? What kind of meds was she on and how did the case against the doc go? (Mental disease is not the same as a planned, evil murder). I don't know if I carry hate around, I just feel the same way against Bruce's murderer as I do against Lucifer. Disgusted. Unacceptable on any and every level. I feel the same way about putting a rattlesnake in a baby's crib; you just DON'T DO IT. Murderers are just as poison. ____________________________ I would never attack you on a personal level because we disagree. You are far too kind-hearted and sweet for that!
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Post by pumpkin12903 on Mar 31, 2006 15:47:29 GMT -5
Meme, we have 1 thing in common: I hate Satan also. He's totally crazy and is working through anyone he can. That's why we have to be so careful to be doing what we need to spiritually. To answer your questions: my Mother was on NO meds at the time she did it. Her great doctor (being sarcastic here) gave her a prescription for Prozac the day before it happened. She was terrified of taking it and nearly hysterical. Nothing my Dad and I said or did would calm her down. She'd heard the news reports of some people killing themselves, losing sanity, etc., and was afraid it would happen to her. The last time I remember her on meds was when I was in grade school. So it was many years from then until she did it she wasn't on anything and refused to get the help she needed. Her doctor gave her this prescription with NO physical exam or bloodwork. From what we checked later, she never filled the prescription or anything. I think she would have told me if she had or taken it, as I was the 2nd closest person to her after my Dad. We went to trial against her doctor 5 years after the murders. We lost, as the state we lived in, it was all or nothing, ie., the jury had to agree with us on all for us to win. They DID agree that this sick jerk didn't even provide her the MINIMUM of care, but didn't agree it was a factor that directly lead to the murders, ie., that it affected her mental state in a bad way. So we lost. BUT, I'm very glad we went, as my HOPE is this sick creep might have changed his ways with other patients. And I felt we did all we could to hold him accountable instead of just letting it go. I tried to get her to get help several times. Based on what I learned from my 1st counselor, her mental state wasn't severe enough for commitment at that time. I could go on and on about how LIBERAL our commitment laws have gotten, but won't. This post is long enough already! So there's the danger of untreated mental illness. It has to be faced and taken seriously. She hadn't done or said anything at that point where she COULD have been committed. I had guilt about all of this for MANY years, and God told me to fix it, it was time to resolve it, so I told my counselor at that time what all was said, Mom's actions, etc., and she told me the above. Anyway, thanks for your concerns. And thank you for the compliment. I admire you, as you've been through more than me in that you've lost 3 people to murder and are still going. Take care.
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Post by meme on Apr 1, 2006 14:44:45 GMT -5
Pumpkin, you are right, she should have been under the care of a responsible doc in a hospital/mental ward. Just for three days for obseravation if nothing else. No one in authority wants to do anything until it is too late. __________________________________________ I am taught by my faith to turn my back on Lucifer and all who are evil. Stay aay from them at all costs. They have turned their backs on God. _____________________________________________ Mental illness is a spiritual challenge (A difficult one) for those who are involved with the mentally ill. They are not in the same category.
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Post by pumpkin12903 on Apr 2, 2006 6:42:01 GMT -5
Meme, I agree. There's too many bad doctors out there. Even 1 bad 1 is too many. I haven't mentioned this, but there was at least 1 person in the apartments where we lived who saw my Mother doing things like turning on water spigots and letting them run. That's the 1 example I can remember. If this 1 had had the guts to tell someone, we would have knew MORE about her mental state. She was also putting newspapers in the washers and then telling my Dad and I that someone was doing that and messing up the clothes. I don't remember on that how we found out she was doing it, but she was. The commitment laws are so liberal now that she couldn't have been committed based on what we did know and what she did say. My 1st counselor told me this. I think it was 1 big reason I drank, was guilt over did I do enough to try to get her to get help? I know now I did all I could. But she couldn't be forced. This to me is 1 of the worst tragedies when people don't get help they need, what they can do to others. What you said about not being around evil people: note that Jesus did not LIVE with the people who needed help and may have not ever repented. He lived with those who were doing all they could to be right with God. He only preached to those who needed help. Of course, ALL are to hear the Gospel, no matter how bad. But we don't have to live with them or join in with them. This is 1 reason I don't care to have alcohol in my apartment or to go in any bar. I don't want that around me. Thanks for listening.
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Post by meme on Apr 2, 2006 14:26:25 GMT -5
You're exactly right about Jesus preaching to those who needed his help, he sought out those who were lost. The bible also says "The law is not made for a righteous man/woman, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly, the sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers and manslayers". 1 Timothy 1:19 ____________________________________________ Murderers & the evil are the ones who deliberately turn their backs on God, and have no interest in hearing the word of Jesus, not since Cain & Able. Murderers get a thrill from the kill. I read that murder victims have planned that in their charts pre-birth in order to allow their loved ones the opportunity to grow spiritually, or be a catalist for much neded change. ____________________________________________ You know how a mother lion or bear protects her cubs, well, that is how I feel, but cheated. Was not there to protect, cannot kill the murderer in retribution- equals rage! But the law of God says death is the penalty for murder. So, no matter if we live to see justice here on earth, retribution is mine sayeth the Lord. (I sure would enjoy a front row seat)!
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Post by meme on Apr 3, 2006 15:03:22 GMT -5
Exacyly! Tell your loved ones that you loved them. That will give your loved one confidence in your relationship.
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Post by Snowleopard on Apr 4, 2006 2:18:21 GMT -5
Since it is usually not personal, I don't think forgivness comes into the issue. Then it is duty, duty to follow what one believes in, such as supporting, carrying out the Constitution.
But what if a situation is personal? Certainly there are those I am wary of, those who have stabbed me in the back. If one of them came to me and asked forgivness, would I?
Well, what is forgivness in the first place? It is erasing the debt of another .............. but it is not restoring trust. So for those who have betrayed me, I might forgive but I will never trust again, never approach again without shields up, defensive weapons on green.
And at a more serious level, then what? One can forgive, but one can never trust again. One can release them of their debt from before but one can never put again put them in a situation where they trust they won't do it again. One welcomes a defector but one never trusts them in a position of importance for if they turned their back on their own country, what is to say that they won't do it for yours?
So to forgive a killer? Such is possible if those forgiving are the holders of the debt. But if Society is the holder, then there is the issue of cannot trust again. Cannot trust again that they won't do it again to another in society. So where does that leave one? Exile really isn't a viable option and while punishment, such as imprisonment since there is so much room for various misunderstandings, is not perfect, it is one of the better options. Ie, "I cannot trust you not to do it again, but if you do do it again, you can trust that I will be after you to stop you."
Now, all that said, we do have forgiveness to a degree. We may sentence a person to death but afterwards, we say, words to the effect of, "And may God have mercy on your soul." We punish but we do not seek eternal damnation. They may seem like just words, perhaps meaningless, but if one considers that in ancient Rome, virgins of any age were raped before execution, since virgins would go to paradise, then they are perhaps not so meaningless (I've heard but can't confirm that certain areas of the world practice such a judicial system).
Years ago, I had to escort a deserter (not the same here, of course, but it is an example from my life) from the Viet Nam War to the airport. It was a low security assignment and in departure, I said, "Good luck to you, Mr. Smith." Why? Did I agree with what he had done in the past? Not at all though I did agree with him turning himself in. But there was no reason to punish him continually, no reason to continue the ill will. Years ago, he had done wrong and he was to be held accountable for it, but past that, there was hope.
We punished, we perhaps do not forgive, but perhaps the true measure is whether or not we continue to punish after the sentence, continue to issue ill will. Not trusting, of course, is not the same as ill will. And some punishment is, of course, permanent. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ("If you wish to ask forgiveness, Taba, then do so after punishment ....... if you survive."--Maga, (wtte), "Battlestar Galactica: The Man with 9 Lives")
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Post by mattsma on Apr 4, 2006 11:10:26 GMT -5
>:(Punishment needs to fit the crime............if the crime carries with it permanent results, like murder does.............then the punishment needs to be permanent also. No matter how much time passed, we will "forever---- be broken" becuase of another person's voilent actions. Forgiving and showing mercy is God's job, not mine.........I am not that powerful. b-safe deb
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Post by meme on Apr 4, 2006 13:57:33 GMT -5
There IS reason to punish a murderer continually because the crime is continuous. We continue to live without our beloved, we continue to grieve. mourn, miss and ache for our murdered loved ones. Life cannot be returned by mankind. Death is continual. Permanent, continued punishment is the price to pay for permanently ending a life. ____________________________________________________ Somehow, I don't think I'm going to be saying to the scum who murdered by love "May God have mercy on your soul". I would be more apt to say "May God have NO mercy on your soul". The murderer had no mercy for their victim.
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Post by toniga on Apr 4, 2006 17:14:20 GMT -5
Thanks for your reply snowleopard. I think forgiveness can be helpful in the sense of not carrying the burden of what another has done to me.Forgiveness to me does not mean what has happened is null and void. It means coming to terms with what happened and what truely exists in this world.It's not saying I am okay with it but looking at the reasons why something could happen without my emotions getting the best of me and finding ways to help prevent or minimize people acting out with violence.
Maybe because this happened in my family I had no choice BUT to question why someone would go that far.I had to find answers.
In my case continually punishing my mother would serve no purpose at this point.It would keep me more bitter than I am and I don't need to further my anger towards the system,my mother,etc UNLESS it is channeled toward changing the system. I refuse to become like my mother and that means a decision to not murder or kill another person.Thats just my take on it coming from where I have. I don't believe mercy and forgiveness is "god's job"
.I think we must dig deeper than just leaving it in god's hands.This is just my take on this because obviously alot of you have had way more henoius crimes commited against your loved ones than what happened to my father so I can only speak for myself and not for everyone because each case has differences.
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Post by meme on Apr 4, 2006 20:19:23 GMT -5
I don't feel that non-acceptance and not forgiving of murder is carrying a burden. Rather it is carrying a torch for the light that was forcably put out in the life of our beloved. As long as we remember and carry that torch for our loved one, they will never be forgotten.
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Post by pumpkin12903 on Apr 5, 2006 10:12:40 GMT -5
Thanks, Toniga and Snowleopard. There's a common misconception, in my opinion, that forgiveness means that what the person did is OK. This is NOT true. This person will be accountable to God, no matter what he/she did. I'll always be angry at what my Mother did. I also resolved to never be like her. I feel she got the punishment she deserved, and I'm fine with that. For me, I had to have answers also and I wanted to not let it destroy me. What good would my life be spent in bitterness and hate? No good. I had enough of that thinking in my drunk years. No more. I think those of us who are sane and re-made our lives have a DUTY to those who have just had this happen and need help. This is also a Biblical concept, that if you make it through a trauma you're to help others through it. It's also a principle in Alcoholics Anonymous. Anyway, thanks for your posts and thanks for listening.
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Post by meme on Apr 5, 2006 13:25:18 GMT -5
True Pumpkin, if you make it through a trama-- to help others. The principals of Gnostic Christianity believe in helping others even BEFORE you have a trama disrupt your life. No one truely understands how deep the cut is until they have the experience though. _______________________________________________ The principal of "Do unto Others" is lost on the evil murderers. Completely lost, and a waste of white energy. White energy is God's energy manifested in the individual. ________________________ "Ill will" is something that is felt when the punishment does not fit the crime. I believe the murderer should suffer the SAME EXACT consequences that they have imposed upon their victims. Like it says in the bible, "An eye for an eye". That is justice. Anything less is unacceptable. But in our blinded society, it would be inhumane? What the murderer did was INHUMANE!!! __________________________________________ In addition, all the murderer's finiancial holdings and property should automatically go into a memorial fund for the victim.
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Post by toniga on Apr 5, 2006 17:51:37 GMT -5
I don't feel that non-acceptance and not forgiving of murder is carrying a burden. Rather it is carrying a torch for the light that was forcably put out in the life of our beloved. As long as we remember and carry that torch for our loved one, they will never be forgotten.
"I don't feel that non-acceptance and not forgiving of murder is carrying a burden. " Well thats you and not me.Tha'ts wonderful it works for you. IN MY CASE it was a burden.I also DO try to get to know my father and carry a torch in what I FEEL is a more productive way for ME.I try to get to the cause before something horrible happens rather that have anger that just festers and grows and destroys myself and others.I can hate to a point but what fricking good does it do UNLESS I put it to good use.I can be angry and bitter but how does that help myself and serve society.I would rather use my time to prevent or minimize what could be.
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Post by meme on Apr 5, 2006 21:51:48 GMT -5
Preventing another murder is exactly the goal. In order to prevent a murderer from murdering again is to make absolutely sure the murderer is either in prison for life without possibility of parole, or the death penalty. _____________________________________ And that is what will work for me and countless others who are not willing to accept murder or even the idea of murder into civilized society. To each his own. What is a burder to one person can be an opportunity to make changes for another. We each have our own ways of dealing with the incredible injustice of murder. __________________________________________________ I personally believe that new laws can deter the idea of murder. As the law now stands, the murderers know they have a chance to walk. get out on bond or bail, beat the system and are out on the streets to murder again. ___________________________________________________________ If anyone wants to forgive, go ahead and do whatever makes you comfortable. The rest of us who are outraged will be fighting for better laws, justice, having memorial ceremonies, and helping others get through their horror. It takes character to do the right thing. It takes guts to stand up against evil. It takes determination to make a better society. A murder-free society is certainly better than one that accepts and forgives murderers, leaving the murderers free to kill again. And the people who are planning to murder (as in my case) won't be so eager to kill if they know the zero-tolerance consequences. ___________________________ Here is a proven example: In Kuwait, one's hand is cut off when convicted of theft. You never see a man with BOTH hands missing.
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Post by Snowleopard on Apr 6, 2006 2:50:46 GMT -5
When one studies psychology, there is the possibility of self dianosis. Reading about this disorder or that and seeing such characteristics in one's self. But is one at that point the same as the person in the reading? Usually no because a disorder only becomes a disorder when it causes functioning problems in one's life. If one's life has other devices to maintain functioning, then it is not a problem. A single or a few symptoms rarely makes it a disorder (interpative nutshell).
Crime, both in working against it and studying it, tends to be similar. I see, at times, things in the lives of criminals, operationally or in development, that I might see, have seen in my own life and I wonder, why I am not like them, why I didn't turn out like them, what keeps me from being like them, what keeps me from becoming bitter. How can someone be so live and let live and yet be a split second away from engaging offensive weapons systems that can snuff one out in an instant.
Essentially what it comes down to is a massive belief system that I subscribe to. My religion, the Constitution, Codes of Conduct and Codes of Honor. Systems that guide, that modify how I think, how I act. Where professional opinions are personal opinions since if I don't do believe in something myself, I should not be working there in the first place. The ends does not justify the means if one becomes no different from the enemy, abandons that which makes them different from the enemy.
What is the point of executing the killer in a way that is the same or similar to that of their victims such as that of the Hillside Stranglers? What is achieved? It does the dead no good; hopefully, they are in paradise, removed from the pain of the world. It repeats to society an unacceptable act even if it is then legal to be done by the State. It may motivate sections of society to try it. It shows others that even those in the right can be motivated by such desires, even if they claim they are not, even if those desires are only to make another human being suffer as much as possible. Isn't that just like the killer? Why do we have to be like them?
I know that it may be so "desirable" to do so, to see their fear as they anticipate the end, what the pain will be like; to watch them writhe and convulse, perhaps "feel" their adernaline rush, the increasing pulse of their hearts, to hear their screams, all in the name of justice because that is what they did to one of ours.
But what does it serve to do so? It enters into that very fine line where one becomes closer to that question of "why am I not like them?" Perhaps more so in my case since in trying to understand the enemy, I may put myself in that boat, try to feel what they were feeling, try to find the points that I might use to detect them. But it is not a very pleasant boat to be in since the thought of using another as a plaything, under whatever justification, is hateful.
If death is to be issued by the State, then it should be swift, without passion. Execute him then turn to the business of the day, serving, helping others in society.
It is a complex world, of what is an open method, who can be a target and who can't, what tactics are approved and which ones are forbidden. Complexity increases if one is a leader for if one abandons the system, ones troops may also abandon the system and cause disaster. Leading by example is so very true. But rules are needed in the complexity because while the enemy may operate more "efficiently" because they don't care about rules, remember that they usually only care about themselves and not about others. But if one is on the side of right, one must care about others.
One does not shoot if the backdrop is someplace where innocents might take the round. The criminal may have all the advantage of shooting in that situation, but two cannot play that same game. One simply cannot sink the hospital ship so that they could get at the destroyer even if the destroyer is the greatest threat to them.
I train, I practice, I learn so if I ever have to kill in service to the State, I can. It is not something that I look forward to, though. I know it will change me but part of the compensation system, in addition that it is only to be done in State service, is that if so, it will only be done effectivly and efficiently, it will be done without passion or pleasure, and because it was necessary. It will not be done in such a way that makes me like my criminal enemy. I will not do it for some desire to see him die. -------------------------------------------------------- ("...you have my memories... You remember what it was like... (seductive) ... the excitement... the passion... the looks on their faces as they realized we were the last thing they'd ever see..."--Joran, ex Dax host, to Ezri (wtte), DS 9 "Field of Fire")
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Post by pumpkin12903 on Apr 6, 2006 5:32:26 GMT -5
FYI, ever since 1990 when the murders happened in my family, I've been sending in parole protest petitions and other petitions to improve the laws. I also wrote a tribute to my Dad and Grandma that was published and got their names/info on plaques in the courthouse in the city they died in. Ironically, the plaques are in the courthouse where the few proceedings we had were. I've also told my story to some in person who are discouraged in order to let them know you can have a life after trauma. I'm going to be doing more things with my story in the future to help. So those of us who did forgive can be active also in working to change the system. As I've stated before, I'm still outraged by what happened to us, always will be. Forgiving for me didn't entail just lying down and taking it. I agree with you, Toniga, that just hating isn't productive. I find it ANTI-productive. Thanks also, Snowleopard, for your thoughts.
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Post by meme on Apr 6, 2006 13:32:07 GMT -5
Pumpkin, I think it is great what you are doing to help others. You may be compelled to forgive in that the murderer was your mother. That's understandable- for anyone whose relative kills another relative. Very sorrowful situation. There is no way to know how you would feel or forgive had the murderer been a stranger or neighbor. (Mental illness is a different issue) _______________________________________________________ Snowleopard, one who executes or imprisons a murderer for life is not in any way becoming "like the killer". Yes, laws are in place in order to aid in justice. Justice is preventing the murderer another opportunity to kill, to spread evil. A rabid dog is killed to prevent the dog's perceived attack on the innocent. The people who plan vicious murders are less than human, they have deliberately chosen an evil outlet. _____________________________________________________________ Had a murderer chosen NOT to kill, they would not be the ones whose lives are ended by law. Cause and effect. The human race has had to create boundries in order to protect themselves. Whoever chooses to kill, and go beyond the acceptable boundries has also chosen to accept the punishment by virtue of the kill, although they plead not guilty in an effort to escape justice. Why? Because the murderers are also liars. Not to be trusted among society. _____________________________________________ I think it is especially fitting that murderers spend every day inprisoned for the rest of their lives. No phone calls, no visitation, no TV, no reading material. They have denied their victims of the same. This is justice. I do not feel the murderers should cost taxpayers over 40K a year per head to maintain their sub-human lives. How much do the taxpayers pay out to memorialize the victims? Nothing. Therefore, I also agree that justice be swift and deadly, those who deserve the death penalty need to be shot down like the rabid dogs that they are. Eliminated. _____________________________________ It is not pleasurable to be forced into the position of an executioner. I would personally take satisfaction in knowing that the murderer of someone I love, is eliminated from existance. Who can they then harm? _____________________________ Murderers are akin to leaches, sucking away at the fabric of our society. Forcing the innocent to deal with the ugly, evil aftermath of the chaos the murderers create. Murderers destroy, and we are left to rebuild the fragile remains of our lives. For that reason alone, I would ENJOY justice in execution (for capital murder) without so much as blinkng an eye.
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Post by toniga on Apr 6, 2006 16:27:42 GMT -5
" If anyone wants to forgive, go ahead and do whatever makes you comfortable. The rest of us who are outraged will be fighting for better laws, justice, having memorial ceremonies, and helping others get through their horror. It takes character to do the right thing. It takes guts to stand up against evil."
Oh yeah just because I forgive my mother means I am not outraged at evil.Oh yeah I guess I am taking all these criminal justice classes just because I have no goals on helping change any laws.Just because I forgive my mother means I don't give a crap about justice? What do you know about having a god damn parent murder and to make all these assumptions.Oh wait you been there in MY SHOES,right? Uh no you haven't. If I was a kid whose parents killed another I would not feel welcome nor safe here in this forum right now IF I was reading this thread..That is so helpful.You should really look at what you type here and walk in another persons damn shoes.I speak from what I know and being born from one of those god awful inhumane murderers who should get the chair,etc.I am done with this specific thread unless I feel the need to speech up for my views.
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Post by meme on Apr 6, 2006 16:55:08 GMT -5
Toniga, No one attacked you personally. I don't appreciate your cursing, and attempting to focus your bitter hostility in a personal attack. My posts deal with capital murderers (which are by definition, pre-meditated). It's obvious you are blindly striking out at a post you partially read and disagree with. (Reread the first paragraph). What makes you think this thread is all about YOU? Don't presume to know my family history when you have no information concerning the facts. No need for paranoia. I sincerely hope you get professional help.
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Post by pumpkin12903 on Apr 9, 2006 13:42:45 GMT -5
Meme, because my Mother was the 1 who did it is NOT the only reason I forgave. I've noted my other reasons in earlier posts and won't repeat them here. Thanks for your compliment about the work I've done/do. I think if it had been a stranger who did it, I would have had an EASIER time. It wouldn't have been my own family betraying us in the worst way. I think with a stranger I wouldn't have the conflicting feelings as much. I think my distrust of others wouldn't have been/be so bad. Thanks for listening.
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Post by pumpkin12903 on Apr 9, 2006 13:50:45 GMT -5
Thanks, Toniga. I understand your upset. You ARE a winner and achiever who by taking those criminal justice classes PROVE that you care about changing the world. You COULD have just gone into a corner, saying poor me, I can't do anything. You DID NOT! You did the best thing you could do. I admire you and what you're doing tremendously. You have the caring and courage and are willing to take the TIME to see how every case is different. It's the EASY WAY OUT TO SEE ALL CASES AS THE SAME! Just as seeing ONLY the parts of the Bible that talk about NON-REPENTANCE. I've always found it funny that when I mention these things very few acknowledge them if at all. So what else is new? This is what you and I, Toniga, are up against. But, the more we speak out the more it can help change things. Thanks for listening.
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Post by pumpkin12903 on Apr 9, 2006 16:36:42 GMT -5
I don't think a message board is the place to say someone needs professional help in a harsh way. Of course, I've said many times on here how therapy saved my life, but I haven't said it in a harsh way, only saying how it helped me when others ask what's worked for us. It's not my PLACE to outright say someone needs professional help. I think this is over-stepping the bounds on a message board. Thanks for listening.
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Post by meme on Apr 9, 2006 17:32:49 GMT -5
Who suggested professional help in a HARSH way? (I was sincere, hence the use of the term "sincerely"). I don't think a message board is the place to take the Lord's name in vain. Not only on a personal level, but it's a sin, unprofessional, highly offensive, and against THE BOARD RULES.
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Post by pumpkin12903 on Apr 9, 2006 18:34:49 GMT -5
The only people in someone's life who should be telling them to get professional help are: their family, their friends, their doctor, people like that. Not people on a message board that haven't even met the person noted. UNLESS the board is of the type where people SEEK professional counseling, and this board isn't 1 of those. It doesn't have doctors giving out advice and charging for it, etc. I think it was out of bounds. And as for swearing, are the 1's who post swear words with asterisks in them really any better than those who come out with the words? Please, like we don't know what the swear words are when we fill in the blanks??!!
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Post by meme on Apr 9, 2006 21:25:46 GMT -5
I think making personal attacks is way out of bounds. I would never curse (G.D.) at anyone for any reason. That is BLASPHEMY, showing contempt for God. I don't know about you, but I revere God. I was raised in church, and showing contemt for God is something one NEVER does, not ever. _______________________________________ Anyone who shows contempt for GOD needs professional help in one way or another. As for using symbols instead of cursing, that has no reference to "contempt for God", that is letting the reader use their imagination. If the reader has their mind in the gutter of feels contempt for God, I certainly don't want anything to do with them, and I have no respect for their opinion.
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