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Post by Charlene on Jun 20, 2003 9:13:31 GMT -5
Author: Emma Email: wingeddelinquent@yahoo.com Subject: A friend's grief--how to help? Date: Mon Apr 21 20:22:10 2003 IP: 64.173.35.10 Message: The fiance of a dear friend was recently murdered. A couple of months have passed and he's back to work, but he is clearly depressed and doesn't seem to want any help. I want to be supportive but I don't know what that looks like, other than to leave him alone completely (which is all he seems to want - though he's never said so). I'm afraid to do just that, as I don't want to turn my back on him. He has no family here and I'm virtually his only friend, yet our 'conversations' are becoming increasingly strained and, for me, difficult to endure.
He's refused all of my offers to get together for meals, movies, stupid tv shows or just to hang out and talk - or not talk. I'm not expecting him to get over this quickly - I've told him this many times and I absolutely believe it. It is all he thinks about, 24/7, and rightly so.
When I reach out to him on the phone, he's silent. My general questions/concerns about his state of being are answered with monosyllables, grunts, sighs, or not at all. If I try to draw him out about current events or things going on in my life, he has nothing to say. And let's face it, by comparison everything else in life seems stupid & trivial, and hardly worth mentioning. There are no undiscovered developments to focus on re: the crime, a murder-suicide.
Having experienced protracted grief & severe clinical depression myself, I know how bad it can get and that one may come to see the depression/lack of improvement as a tribute to the lost loved one. It can also become a habit. I know that one has to want to feel better, and that the grieving process can't be rushed. How do I convey my concern without sounding like Mr. Know it All? How should I approach any of this, if at all?
If anyone has advice on how I can support my friend without becoming obnoxious, giving up or driving him away; and suggestions about the types of interactions you appreciated under similarly tragic circumstances, please let me know, I'm open to anything.
TIA, Emma
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Post by Charlene on Jun 20, 2003 9:14:09 GMT -5
Author: Chris Email: wally@backofthey.co.nz Subject: therapy? Date: Sat Apr 26 04:45:42 2003 IP: 203.109.254.50 Message: Hi Emma, you sound like a fantastic friend. A little about me...I went through a similar experience to your friend 2 years ago when my girlfriend was murdered. My relationship with my family is not particularly good and I received little support from them, though I did not ask for it and exactly what you say to someone who has been through this kind of loss I don't know(you sound like you're doing as well as anyone could hope to). To make a long story short, the full impact of what had happened did not affect me until a year later(I read recently this was also the case with many family of september 11 victims). I was very depressed and experienced panic attacks. I couldn't communicate with anyone and was not nice to be around(I know what you mean about 'conversations' being strained and difficult to endure). I had suicidal thoughts. One day during a panic attack I desperately rang a friend and confessed my utter state of hopelessness. Afew days later she rang me and asked if I'd like to see a 'therapist' and, with nothing to lose, I said yes. The therapy involved me talking to a man(Registered Psychologist-Dip. Psychosynthesis Psychotherapy) in a little study at his home. It was amazing. Each session was 1 hour, once a week, I would go after work. Part of the benefit of a therapist is that they are not emotionally attached and so I wouldn't worry about what they thought and knew that it was not a burden on them. I'm not sure how many times I went, maybe 10. In that time I went from feeling broken beyond repair to being happy, in control and looking forward to the future. I didn't receive any drugs which I'm glad about and would recommend finding someone that will not prescribe them at the drop of a hat if possible though also avoiding therapists that are particularly 'alternative'. I saw a documentary about people that had been in the twin towers and it featured interviews with survivors from some of the offices. One guy really stood out as seeming much more together and objective/happy than the other interviewees. He mentioned that immediately after the event, when they moved to new offices, they had lots of therapists working with the survivors. I think it might make the world of difference. Some people have mentioned support groups which sounds good...though personally I wouldn't have been able to handle that kind of group interaction when I first got some help. Maybe a mix would be good, after afew weeks of therapy. Looks like I made a long story long! If you have any questions please feel free to email me. Chris
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Post by Charlene on Jun 20, 2003 9:16:16 GMT -5
Author: Becky (Pam's sister) Email: Subject: Friends Date: Fri Apr 25 18:06:29 2003 IP: 24.210.85.184 Message: Emma, My sister was murdered 10 months ago. I belong to a very close family and have 2 other sisters and my mom. They have all been great and we talk a lot about Pam and her case. I want you to know that nothing in the world has meant more to me than the friends that have stood beside me. There are times when I just don't want to think about what has happened and others when that's all I can think about. My friends all made it very clear that no matter what mood I was in they would be there. I now feel that I can talk about it. They always ask if anything more has happened with the case and anything they can do. They even keep tabs on my mom and other sisters, asking how they are doing. It makes me feel that Pam has not been forgotten and that my friends really do care about me. Just be yourself and let your friend know that even though you can never imagine his pain, you are there for him when he is ready. Make sure he knows he can contact you at any time, even if it's just to talk. I hope this helps. My prayers are with your friend, Becky
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Post by Charlene on Jun 20, 2003 9:16:51 GMT -5
Author: Emma Email: wingeddelinquent@yahoo.com Subject: Thanks to all Date: Thu Jun 19 01:40:09 2003 IP: 216.175.101.122 Message: Becky, Chris, Snow Leopard, Sol, Fran, Bonnie and Karen - thanks so much for your kind words of encouragement, support & wisdom. I had stopped checking back for responses after the first couple, thinking that would be all, and was pleasantly surprised to find so many more upon my return tonight.
You've all given me the boost I guess I needed to keep up with...whatever it is I'm trying to do to keep my friend in the land of the living. I have tried some of what was suggested to me early on, and will continue with those ideas as well as the later ones, despite the absence of any visible signs of "success." I now know that keeping a high profile with him isn't going to work for either of us, so I'll keep up a steady background presence as much as I can, and hope for the best. A couple of referrals in my back pocket will, in time, come in handy too (I hope).
Thanks again and my very best wishes to each of you. Emma
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Post by Charlene on Jun 20, 2003 9:17:25 GMT -5
Author: Snow Leopard Email: th05324@swt.edu Subject: Fuzzy Date: Fri Apr 25 05:41:40 2003 IP: 147.26.149.112 Message: A suggestion though it must be weighed carefully to the situation for there are ways that are seen that it can go wrong.
Perhaps some display of animals such as a zoo or an aquariam might generate a spark. When my immediate supervisor was going through a burn out period, I took her out to a sea park to 'reset' her.
It's an approach that isn't perfect but it might remind one that there is still beauty in the world.
I would not recommend the giving of a pet, but if so, then not beyound the level of a fish. There is a lot of power in those who are fuzzy, but they must be with those who can return the love. So, they shouldn't be given but selected (or joined).
But watching those who are fuzzy, such as in a zoo or a sea park (otters, seals) [not quite sure about circuses for this one], might help to assist. --------------------------------- ("What are you worried for? YOU GOT ME!"---Widget the dog to me during a stressful time, (actions, words to that effect))
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Post by Charlene on Jun 20, 2003 9:17:55 GMT -5
Author: sol Email: Subject: time Date: Fri Apr 25 15:20:18 2003 IP: 66.141.177.59 Message: well, the way you described it, maybe your friend isn't ready to talk about his feelings yet. He may be trying to deal with this himself, and you don't really know if he's accepted it yet. Just tell him "listen, I know you must be going through a bunch of emotions and thoughts, but I want you to remember that when you are ready to talk about it or if you ever need me to just be there, I'm here for you". Remind him from time to time, but don't push the issue. If he doesn't want to go out, or talk about it, he's not ready. Another thing you could do is just slip him a number to a victim's outreach organization, and just let him know that there are other's who may be able to help him go through this as well, when he's ready. hope I've helped!
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Post by Charlene on Jun 20, 2003 9:18:35 GMT -5
Author: Fran Email: Subject: Being a friend Date: Tue Apr 22 04:09:02 2003 IP: 152.163.188.194 Message: My 2 1/2 yr. old grandson and his 21 yr. old mother were murdered July 1, 2002. Friends try so hard to help me and I too sometimes avoid them. It's not that I don't appreciate their love and offers of help but sometimes just can't deal with anything. One friend was so kind - she would put candy bars on my desk with a little note - "Something sweet for you", cards - "just thinking about you type" on my desk, one dear friend even created a beautiful web site for my precious ones. I came home one nite and a friend brought by my supper - long after everyone had dropped out. She just said she was just thinking about me - she didn't stay - just gave me the supper and left. I realized how blessed I was with these peoples friendship and eventually was able to talk to them about my pain. I guess what I am saying is not to give up. We need our friends whether we realize it or not. Just be there and let your friend know in little ways that you are there when he is ready.
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Post by Charlene on Jun 20, 2003 9:19:05 GMT -5
Author: Emma Email: Subject: To Fran Date: Thu Apr 24 23:55:29 2003 IP: 216.175.86.60 Message: Fran, thanks for the encouragement. I guess as long as he doesn't resent my interest, I can keep it up.
I'm sorry for your loss! How hard that must be, I can't imagine. Bless you--hang in there.
Emma
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Post by Charlene on Jun 20, 2003 9:19:39 GMT -5
Author: Bonnie Email: Subject: an idea Date: Mon Apr 21 22:50:33 2003 IP: 209.78.210.200 Message: I felt like a freak when my dad was murdered, I felt like people tip toed around me nd avoided the one thing that was on my mind all the time. I welcomed the chance to talk about it. I mean I shut myself in my house for almost a year because i felt like i made people uncomfortable, and i didn't want people to feel sorry for me but i did want their help. So my advice is ask specific questions about what happened, what the funeral was like, about the police, not so much about how he feels, I'm sure those feelings will come through. Ask all the questions that you want, particularly the ones you might think ae inappropriate because that is the stuff that hurts the most to keep inside for us victims. Just listen, don't interject unless he asks a specific question. You can't fix it and trying to might jsut make him feel insulted or angry or more hopeless. Having someone listen is the best gift. Second, offer to do very specific things with him, don't just invite him to dinner, insist that there is a relly interesting restaurant that you have always wnated to go to but no one is adventurous enough to go, got the idea. Offer to go to a specific support group with him or offer to help him clean his house on a specific day for a specific amount of time, and be a little insistant, make it sound like he is doing you a favor so he doesn't feel that you are doing it out of pity. Thes are just examples, you have to judge for yourself what could help and what he wopuld accept as well as what you feel comfortable providing. You are a really amazing wonderful person to be so concerned, he may have a really hard time seeing that now, but if you are persistent I am sure he will never ever forget it. Good Luck, he is very lucky to have a friend like you on his side! Bonnie
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Post by Charlene on Jun 20, 2003 9:20:07 GMT -5
Author: Emma Email: wingeddelinquent@yahoo.com Subject: Thanks Bonnie Date: Fri Apr 25 00:12:46 2003 IP: 216.175.86.60 Message: Bonnie, I'm sorry about your dad. Losing a parent is hard enough under normal circumstances, but to lose him violently must magnify everything geometrically and then some.
Thank you for all the great ideas. I already know what I'll suggest first, it's something he really needs to do anyway.
I only hope I haven't already blown it--I'd been trying to show I could identify to some extent with what he's been going through, perhaps that's alienated him.
How did you feel about someone being just plain goofy? I am a rather silly person normally, poking fun at virtually everything. I've pretty much stopped this when we're together, as it just seems out of place and somehow disrespectful. Was that the right decision, or will he find it condescending, do you think?
Thanks again. Emma
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Post by Charlene on Jun 20, 2003 9:20:37 GMT -5
Author: Bonnie Email: Subject: Humor Date: Fri Apr 25 21:06:47 2003 IP: 67.115.249.227 Message: Humor is a great thing, but always test the water. Humor is my husband's way of dealing with all my tough stuff, sometimes it ticks me off but it never hurts and often gets my mind off it or lets me laugh at myself. You were probably right when you said that trying to compare your experiences might be alienating him. By all means your tough times in life are not to be taken lightly and are no less important than his, BUT you just can't compare anything to this, it is upsetting to us to feel we have to compare cancer to the flu. We just need to hear that this really sucks, that other people have no idea what it's like, and they are sorry we do. our a good friend, the rest of the posts talk about patience and I think that is the best advice of al. One more idesa on humor, I tend to find it in the ironic things about the whole ordeal, but you don't know about anyone else, most of the emotions he has toward other people right now won't even be about that. Don't take anything personal and hang in theree, your doing a great job.
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Post by Charlene on Jun 20, 2003 9:21:14 GMT -5
Author: Snow Leopard Email: th05324@swt.edu Subject: The Jester Date: Fri Apr 25 06:17:52 2003 IP: 147.26.149.112 Message: Goofy does have its possibilities and it could work in some situations.
Once, there was a waitress from another country who had been mistreated by one set of customners and when my father blew up (I think he did)at her for upsetting his order, she lost it. He went into the bar where she was in tears and sat down on the edge of the table in front of her to talk to her. The aim was that it is hard to feel sorry for yourself when you are looking down (sitting on the table, my father would be in a lower position) on someone, but the affect was multiplied when the table upended and he ended up on the ground.
In wolf pack behavior, there are two essential (perhaps among others) members. One is the Alpha male but the other is the Jester, the wolf that plays, keeps the morale of the pack up.
Consider the comics that people cut out and put on their refrigerators. Why? Pehaps to be that source they can turn to so to laugh again?
Humor, of course, should be honest and not biting, not 'mean'. There are various approaches and some work better for others on one situation or another. And some situations probably will not make humor appropirate, so one does have to judge. It depends; my favorite is the sudden finger on the nose, BEEP. Which if one is known for such, it can be used in association.
For example, consider the 7 scenarios of famous literature figures as seen from another point of view (I'll give the scenarios but only answer the one for the example).
1. A fair haired little girl who has no respect for the property of others. 2. A military commander, obviously the glory boy of the fleet, who enforces rules and regulations to the letter.....but only when they fit his purpose. 3. A farm girl, obviously playing the innocent, who between her and her wierd friends, goes around killing old women. 4. A civil servant with perversions in sex and violence who constantly saves the world and is declared a hero each time. 5. A criminal who finds himself in the wrong place at the wrong time and becomes a great hero. 6. A vigilante who in his battle against evil constantly places a minor in danger. 7. A story about a furry carnivore chasing a feathery beast who in his futile attempts causes massive destruction to the ecology and himself.
And the punch line for 7, or the answer, or whatever, is made by leaning over, finger on their nose, and going, "BEEP-BEEP!"
Mmmmmmm, I'm sort of known for HIM now that I think of it. Such as the time another ship's officer was locked out of his apartment, so he was in mine when his wife, another officer, got home and called, "Snowy, is my husband over there?" and there I was, feeding him crackers and cheese and showing him Road Runner cartoons. Certainly an upstanding member of the community but it does sound odd, doesn't it?
Now, of course, in view of what we are talking about here, with 3-5, maybe 6, one might want to leave them out for another time.
There is an awful lot to be said for goofy in trying to cheer someone up. ------------------------ (Fiona, the mimic, started walking next to the sullen Solo with an invisible blaster on her hip. They made some distance before he realied what she was doing. "Will you stop that? Someone is liable to call you out!"--Solo said sarcastically "Hey, it worked, didn't it? It stopped your down mood, right?"--Fiona, (s,wtte), Book: Han Solo's Revenge)
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Post by Charlene on Jun 20, 2003 9:21:38 GMT -5
Author: Karen-Jamie's mom Email: Subject: Re: A friend's grief--how to help? Date: Mon Apr 21 21:17:42 2003 IP: 208.170.139.144 Message: Although you may not feel you are getting through, please don't give up. Many of us isolate in our grief. Talking, relating, or just trying to act "normal" can be a tremendous strain. Just keep on letting him know you care, that you are there for him. It will take a huge amount of patience and tenacity on your part. You don't want to overwhelm him, but he also doesn't need to feel abandoned. Those first days, weeks and months...he's still trying to process his loss and make sense of the senseless. His mind is totally preoccupied with this. Just be quietly supportive in the background. Let him know you are there, and don't expect too much from him. Maybe enquire into homicide support groups in your area and if there is one, see if you can interest him in attending one. Other than this, all I can offer is just to continue to gently let him know you are there for him.
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Post by Charlene on Jun 20, 2003 9:22:10 GMT -5
Author: Emma Email: Subject: Thank you Date: Fri Apr 25 00:24:07 2003 IP: 216.175.86.60 Message: Karen, thank you for these insights. I'm glad you used the word 'huge' because it will help me to not get discouraged.
I am hoping to interest him in a homicide survivor's group. So far he's shrugged this off, I was thinking it was a guy thing or maybe he's still too numb. I'll wait and see.
Take care, Emma
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